1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:14,382 --> 00:00:16,717 Elsa Dorfman: This is Harvey, my husband. 4 00:00:17,151 --> 00:00:20,688 He likes to go to the local variety store at night... 5 00:00:22,656 --> 00:00:24,592 to buy essentials, like, 6 00:00:25,126 --> 00:00:27,828 our 50th box of tea or something. 7 00:00:28,262 --> 00:00:31,399 I always worry that he's gonna get hit by a car. 8 00:00:31,399 --> 00:00:34,268 I nagged him until he got-- 9 00:00:34,768 --> 00:00:35,936 Not exactly a bib, 10 00:00:35,936 --> 00:00:38,239 it's sort of like to ride a bicycle. 11 00:00:38,572 --> 00:00:42,810 But instead of just putting it on over your coat, 12 00:00:43,144 --> 00:00:48,149 we had our friend sew it very stylishly 13 00:00:48,349 --> 00:00:53,554 on the front and back and it's part of the coat. 14 00:00:56,724 --> 00:00:59,493 He wears it with great flair. 15 00:01:01,129 --> 00:01:03,864 And this coat knew 16 00:01:03,864 --> 00:01:06,800 that it was going to be photographed from the back. 17 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,636 It has all these buttonholes. 18 00:01:09,403 --> 00:01:11,539 If anything, the back is even greater 19 00:01:11,539 --> 00:01:12,540 than the front. 20 00:01:16,444 --> 00:01:20,848 The yellow is from when you scoop up the chemicals. 21 00:01:20,848 --> 00:01:24,252 If there's a residue of chemistry, 22 00:01:24,252 --> 00:01:26,620 then over time, it turns yellow. 23 00:01:27,221 --> 00:01:28,622 (phone rings) 24 00:01:30,658 --> 00:01:32,893 -(phone continues ringing) -Shall I answer the phone? 25 00:01:32,893 --> 00:01:34,362 -Interviewer: Sure. -Okay. 26 00:01:35,095 --> 00:01:36,664 (phone continues ringing) 27 00:01:38,899 --> 00:01:40,100 Elsa: Hello? 28 00:01:40,734 --> 00:01:43,271 Hi, oh, it's Gail. 29 00:01:43,271 --> 00:01:46,174 Everybody it's Gail, we're filming. 30 00:01:48,742 --> 00:01:50,744 Yeah, we're on film right now. 31 00:01:52,213 --> 00:01:55,349 Like the '60s when we used to tape our conversations. 32 00:01:56,116 --> 00:01:59,153 (laughing) And it would be great and brilliant. 33 00:02:05,159 --> 00:02:09,663 All right, sweetie, bye. Bye. 34 00:02:22,476 --> 00:02:24,412 Reporter 1: Polaroid, as we once knew it, 35 00:02:24,412 --> 00:02:27,080 is fading away. They stopped making cameras. 36 00:02:27,515 --> 00:02:28,649 Now the company's announced 37 00:02:28,782 --> 00:02:30,851 they're no longer gonna make that instant film. 38 00:02:34,388 --> 00:02:36,657 Reporter 2: So far, though, Polaroid has not struck a deal 39 00:02:36,657 --> 00:02:38,426 to let another company make the film 40 00:02:38,426 --> 00:02:41,529 to keep those cameras alive and swinging. 41 00:02:50,137 --> 00:02:51,972 Reporter 3: After more than 30 years 42 00:02:51,972 --> 00:02:55,209 in the photography business, a world-renowned pioneer 43 00:02:55,209 --> 00:02:58,279 of large format Polaroid photography, 44 00:02:58,512 --> 00:03:00,881 Elsa Dorfman, is retiring. 45 00:03:17,731 --> 00:03:20,501 Interviewer: So let's look at another picture, if we could. 46 00:03:22,636 --> 00:03:28,609 Elsa: Okay. I'm gonna show you first black and whites. 47 00:03:34,748 --> 00:03:37,217 I wasn't born as a color photographer. 48 00:03:37,518 --> 00:03:39,253 I was a black and white photographer 49 00:03:39,253 --> 00:03:41,655 for about 15 years. 50 00:03:44,558 --> 00:03:47,428 I'm looking here at a picture of Ferlinghetti 51 00:03:47,428 --> 00:03:50,464 and Gordon Cairnie, 52 00:03:51,399 --> 00:03:56,036 and it's on photographic paper, typical of me, 53 00:03:56,604 --> 00:03:58,972 that hasn't been properly washed, 54 00:03:59,507 --> 00:04:03,744 and I'm gonna show you the back because it's staining. 55 00:04:04,077 --> 00:04:06,079 And it will contaminate everything 56 00:04:06,079 --> 00:04:08,516 in this nice gray box. 57 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:12,520 Here in the corner of this picture 58 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,591 is an issue of The Antioch Review... 59 00:04:23,797 --> 00:04:27,067 which had a series of my photographs 60 00:04:27,301 --> 00:04:29,537 and poems by people. 61 00:04:34,508 --> 00:04:37,010 And I think it was for Gordon's birthday. 62 00:04:41,382 --> 00:04:44,752 The Grolier was like a beacon of sanity. 63 00:04:50,257 --> 00:04:52,526 So many people were there, 64 00:04:54,428 --> 00:04:55,896 all day long, 65 00:04:57,431 --> 00:04:59,700 and everybody knew everybody else. 66 00:05:01,301 --> 00:05:02,803 There I was sitting on a couch. 67 00:05:02,803 --> 00:05:05,072 What was easier than taking pictures? 68 00:05:18,519 --> 00:05:23,891 I met all these people in 1959 69 00:05:23,891 --> 00:05:28,195 when I went from graduating from Tufts 70 00:05:28,629 --> 00:05:33,000 to getting a job in New York as a secretary. 71 00:05:33,266 --> 00:05:35,268 And in those days, 72 00:05:35,268 --> 00:05:40,541 it was unheard of for a nice Jewish girl 73 00:05:40,541 --> 00:05:43,911 not to live with her parents until she was married. 74 00:05:44,244 --> 00:05:46,914 And one place that I was interviewed 75 00:05:46,914 --> 00:05:48,516 was Grove Press. 76 00:05:51,852 --> 00:05:54,588 And I was hired. 77 00:05:58,291 --> 00:06:00,694 Grove published the Evergreen Review. 78 00:06:04,331 --> 00:06:06,400 It was the time of the Lady Chatterley's 79 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:07,701 Lover case. 80 00:06:14,675 --> 00:06:17,377 Grove was right in the middle of the Village. 81 00:06:21,048 --> 00:06:24,785 Writers would come to use the Apeco machine. 82 00:06:25,419 --> 00:06:29,022 And in those days, the girls, like me, 83 00:06:29,356 --> 00:06:31,792 were in charge of the Apeco machine, 84 00:06:32,292 --> 00:06:35,095 which was the forerunner of Xerox. 85 00:06:35,095 --> 00:06:36,396 Ginsberg would come with like, 86 00:06:36,396 --> 00:06:40,067 a 50-page manuscript or a letter to Burroughs. 87 00:06:40,768 --> 00:06:43,270 Ginsberg never did anything without making a copy. 88 00:06:43,504 --> 00:06:46,574 And one day he said to me, "Where's the can?" 89 00:06:47,174 --> 00:06:49,376 And I said, "The can?" 90 00:06:49,943 --> 00:06:52,746 I had never heard of the word "can" 91 00:06:53,246 --> 00:06:54,615 for a bathroom. 92 00:06:54,615 --> 00:06:55,916 I was like, "What?" 93 00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:58,452 And we were friends from that day 94 00:06:58,452 --> 00:07:00,454 for the next 50 years, I guess. 95 00:07:02,990 --> 00:07:06,694 Man: Mr. Allen Ginsberg is, according to The New York Times, 96 00:07:06,694 --> 00:07:08,428 quote, "Perhaps the most famous 97 00:07:08,829 --> 00:07:11,832 and admired contemporary American poet." 98 00:07:12,766 --> 00:07:17,070 But he's known here in America less as a poet than a prophet. 99 00:07:23,777 --> 00:07:25,979 Allen Ginsberg: America, I've given you all 100 00:07:25,979 --> 00:07:27,214 and now I'm nothing. 101 00:07:28,148 --> 00:07:33,020 America $2.27 January 17, 1956. 102 00:07:33,654 --> 00:07:35,322 I can't stand my own mind. 103 00:07:36,123 --> 00:07:38,492 America, when will we end the human war? 104 00:07:38,992 --> 00:07:41,061 Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb 105 00:07:41,361 --> 00:07:42,896 I don't feel good don't bother me. 106 00:07:43,230 --> 00:07:45,933 I won't write my poem till I'm in my right mind. 107 00:07:46,934 --> 00:07:48,902 America, when will you be angelic? 108 00:07:49,503 --> 00:07:51,104 When will you take off your clothes? 109 00:07:51,104 --> 00:07:53,140 When will you look at yourself through the grave? 110 00:07:53,373 --> 00:07:56,109 When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites? 111 00:07:56,544 --> 00:07:59,680 America, why are your libraries full of tears? 112 00:08:02,550 --> 00:08:05,819 I decided that New York was too much for me. 113 00:08:06,186 --> 00:08:11,024 There was no woman that I met who wasn't an alcoholic, 114 00:08:11,024 --> 00:08:14,261 who wasn't promiscuous, 115 00:08:14,261 --> 00:08:16,530 who wasn't a druggie, 116 00:08:16,530 --> 00:08:19,833 and was creative or had an interesting life. 117 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:22,870 Really a defeat for me was I came home, 118 00:08:22,870 --> 00:08:26,273 lived with my parents, and went to BC 119 00:08:26,707 --> 00:08:29,977 and got a degree for teaching elementary school. 120 00:08:36,784 --> 00:08:41,221 And I got a job teaching in Concord, Massachusetts, 121 00:08:41,722 --> 00:08:47,294 which was like a white, wealthy suburb even back then. 122 00:08:47,761 --> 00:08:51,498 And one of the parents of a kid in my class 123 00:08:52,099 --> 00:08:56,403 called me aside and said, "You don't really belong here" 124 00:08:56,937 --> 00:09:01,374 and sent me to the elementary science program 125 00:09:01,842 --> 00:09:04,544 that was set up by MIT people. 126 00:09:04,778 --> 00:09:06,947 They took pictures of all the teachers teaching, 127 00:09:06,947 --> 00:09:10,851 and so I had a photographer assigned to me. 128 00:09:11,518 --> 00:09:15,589 And that photographer gave me a camera, 129 00:09:16,023 --> 00:09:16,890 didn't say to me, 130 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:19,159 "Oh, I'm loaning you this Hasselblad. 131 00:09:19,392 --> 00:09:23,230 It's a really good camera, or it cost blah, blah, blah." 132 00:09:23,230 --> 00:09:25,498 Just, "Here, use this camera. 133 00:09:25,833 --> 00:09:27,367 It's called a Hasselblad." 134 00:09:27,601 --> 00:09:32,005 There was a darkroom there that they let me use. 135 00:09:32,806 --> 00:09:35,776 Berenice Abbott had set up that darkroom 136 00:09:35,776 --> 00:09:37,911 and made her "Science" photographs 137 00:09:37,911 --> 00:09:40,580 that are so famous in that darkroom. 138 00:09:43,483 --> 00:09:44,517 He said to me, 139 00:09:44,517 --> 00:09:46,319 "You could be like Berenice Abbott." 140 00:09:46,754 --> 00:09:49,122 Nobody had ever said to me anything except, 141 00:09:49,122 --> 00:09:50,390 "You could be a jerk." 142 00:09:50,791 --> 00:09:53,026 I mean, they didn't say that at Grove but-- 143 00:09:54,194 --> 00:09:57,698 that was where I picked up a camera, was at ESI. 144 00:09:57,898 --> 00:10:03,336 It was as incredible in its way as Grove was. 145 00:10:05,605 --> 00:10:08,141 I was just one lucky little Jewish girl... 146 00:10:10,978 --> 00:10:13,647 who escaped by the skin of her teeth. 147 00:10:16,183 --> 00:10:17,317 That's what I think. 148 00:10:24,024 --> 00:10:26,059 Elsa: Almost from the very beginning, 149 00:10:26,359 --> 00:10:28,962 I took self-portraits. 150 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:32,833 Being comfortable with the camera on myself 151 00:10:33,333 --> 00:10:35,035 affected how I felt 152 00:10:35,035 --> 00:10:37,771 in taking pictures of other people. 153 00:10:39,472 --> 00:10:43,176 I really had in my mind that this was helping me 154 00:10:43,576 --> 00:10:45,713 in some magical way to take portraits 155 00:10:45,713 --> 00:10:49,683 because people would sense I did it to myself too. 156 00:10:55,889 --> 00:10:57,224 Host: I have a very special guest 157 00:10:57,224 --> 00:10:59,559 this evening. She is Elsa Dorfman. 158 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:00,828 Elsa is a photographer 159 00:11:00,828 --> 00:11:03,363 who lives and works in Cambridge, Massachusetts. 160 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:05,699 She is the author of Elsa's Housebook: 161 00:11:05,899 --> 00:11:07,467 A Woman's Photojournal. 162 00:11:07,901 --> 00:11:10,103 I think one of the amazing things about you 163 00:11:10,103 --> 00:11:11,905 is that you never picked up a camera 164 00:11:11,905 --> 00:11:13,340 until you were 28 years old. 165 00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:15,675 It was so embarrassing not to be anything. 166 00:11:15,675 --> 00:11:16,877 I wasn't married, 167 00:11:16,877 --> 00:11:18,611 so you had to be called something. 168 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:20,781 You know, when people said, "What are you doing?" 169 00:11:21,281 --> 00:11:24,251 In those days it was mortifying not to be-- 170 00:11:24,517 --> 00:11:25,886 Not to be married. I mean... 171 00:11:26,219 --> 00:11:28,989 So I had to have a thing. So, what could be better? 172 00:11:28,989 --> 00:11:31,024 My camera! I'm a photographer. 173 00:11:31,024 --> 00:11:32,726 I'm always thinking about my work 174 00:11:32,726 --> 00:11:34,895 and how I want to pull my work together 175 00:11:34,895 --> 00:11:38,131 and what I want it to be and the form I want it to take. 176 00:11:38,598 --> 00:11:39,800 And I do that all the time, 177 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,869 when I'm sitting around or talking 178 00:11:41,869 --> 00:11:44,471 or in the morning, cleaning up and stuff. 179 00:11:44,738 --> 00:11:47,440 But when the minute comes to taking the picture, 180 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,976 I'm not thinking about that at all. 181 00:11:48,976 --> 00:11:54,514 It's sort of like a reservoir that's in me that's operating, 182 00:11:54,514 --> 00:11:58,986 but I'm not thinking about it 183 00:11:58,986 --> 00:12:01,421 when I actually have the camera in my hand. 184 00:12:01,922 --> 00:12:04,157 I'm really guided by my unconscious. 185 00:12:04,424 --> 00:12:06,093 Sounds sort of mystical, but... 186 00:12:06,794 --> 00:12:08,328 I think I take my best pictures 187 00:12:08,328 --> 00:12:10,764 when my head isn't cluttered with other things. 188 00:12:10,764 --> 00:12:13,200 Elsa, do you think the camera tells the truth? 189 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,201 Absolutely not. 190 00:12:14,201 --> 00:12:17,370 You take 20 pictures in two minutes, 191 00:12:17,370 --> 00:12:18,906 and they're so different. 192 00:12:19,706 --> 00:12:21,408 Um... I think it's just-- 193 00:12:21,809 --> 00:12:23,743 It's, I mean, that's what I love about it, 194 00:12:23,743 --> 00:12:25,212 it's not real at all. 195 00:12:33,686 --> 00:12:38,826 Here is the couch. 196 00:12:38,826 --> 00:12:43,130 I bought this couch for $300 197 00:12:43,130 --> 00:12:47,334 at a place near the Mount Auburn Cemetery. 198 00:12:48,335 --> 00:12:51,972 And I hired from the Phoenix for ten dollars 199 00:12:52,472 --> 00:12:57,244 some people to pick it up and bring it to Flagg Street. 200 00:12:58,879 --> 00:13:01,114 And they were on the cover of the Housebook. 201 00:13:01,548 --> 00:13:03,116 (laughing) 202 00:13:14,127 --> 00:13:16,529 Interviewer: Tell me about the cord in the picture. 203 00:13:17,664 --> 00:13:20,067 Elsa: It's the cable release. 204 00:13:20,868 --> 00:13:22,936 It's sort of an act of God, 205 00:13:23,336 --> 00:13:26,606 because the cable release is in the perfect place, 206 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:28,241 and I had no idea 207 00:13:28,241 --> 00:13:30,010 it would be in the perfect place, 208 00:13:30,277 --> 00:13:32,946 and it fell in the perfect place. 209 00:13:35,715 --> 00:13:37,985 And it's amazing, it's like a gift. 210 00:13:46,026 --> 00:13:49,396 And the dress is my favorite Marimekko. 211 00:13:57,437 --> 00:14:01,208 The shopping cart is very relevant in the distance 212 00:14:01,208 --> 00:14:02,943 because this is the shopping cart 213 00:14:02,943 --> 00:14:07,447 that I sold my pictures on the street for two dollars. 214 00:14:07,881 --> 00:14:09,883 And they let me borrow it. 215 00:14:10,717 --> 00:14:13,520 I didn't have to, you know, pilfer it. 216 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,257 They let me borrow it from the store. 217 00:14:18,258 --> 00:14:19,792 Every year I would return it, 218 00:14:19,792 --> 00:14:21,261 and every year I would borrow it. 219 00:14:33,606 --> 00:14:35,375 And I sold these pictures, 220 00:14:35,375 --> 00:14:38,311 along with other pictures, in Harvard Square. 221 00:15:03,603 --> 00:15:06,539 The police would come and want to chase me away. 222 00:15:08,942 --> 00:15:11,578 And I had a letter that Harvey had composed 223 00:15:11,578 --> 00:15:14,347 saying I was protected by the First Amendment, 224 00:15:14,781 --> 00:15:16,783 and I alerted the chief of police, 225 00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:18,851 and they let me stay there. 226 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,322 And the funniest thing is that a couple of those pictures 227 00:15:22,322 --> 00:15:25,959 are owned by the Museum of Fine Arts. 228 00:15:27,627 --> 00:15:29,262 But it was weird because later 229 00:15:29,262 --> 00:15:30,697 I'd run into people and they'd say, 230 00:15:30,697 --> 00:15:32,832 "Oh, I rented an apartment 231 00:15:32,832 --> 00:15:35,969 and a picture of yours was in the bathroom. 232 00:15:36,769 --> 00:15:38,338 Somebody left it there." 233 00:15:38,338 --> 00:15:41,441 They knew how to make me feel good. 234 00:15:43,643 --> 00:15:44,711 Really. 235 00:15:44,711 --> 00:15:47,680 This one of Harvey... 236 00:15:51,851 --> 00:15:53,987 and Harvey was on the phone 237 00:15:54,221 --> 00:15:57,590 with his really close friend who was in Europe, 238 00:15:58,125 --> 00:16:01,561 Norman Zalkind, who he practices law with. 239 00:16:03,563 --> 00:16:05,132 And I was probably going, 240 00:16:05,132 --> 00:16:06,933 (fingers tapping) 241 00:16:07,167 --> 00:16:11,338 "Harvey, you've been on the phone a long time 242 00:16:11,338 --> 00:16:14,574 and it's expensive." (laughing) 243 00:16:20,047 --> 00:16:21,714 This is my mother. 244 00:16:23,483 --> 00:16:25,018 "Elsa." 245 00:16:27,554 --> 00:16:30,723 And it's my favorite picture of my mother. 246 00:16:32,192 --> 00:16:37,230 I didn't realize it at the time, but it is so my mother. 247 00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:40,867 Bringing food, 248 00:16:41,168 --> 00:16:43,970 and my father being in the background, 249 00:16:43,970 --> 00:16:45,105 but there. 250 00:16:45,738 --> 00:16:49,576 I'm sure she also brought a bag of bargains 251 00:16:49,576 --> 00:16:54,247 because she was a total bargain-obsessed person. 252 00:16:54,581 --> 00:17:00,153 Anything under ten dollars that should be 15, she bought. 253 00:17:02,622 --> 00:17:03,990 Oh, here's a picture of-- 254 00:17:04,324 --> 00:17:06,659 This is kind of nice of Flagg Street. 255 00:17:07,260 --> 00:17:09,729 This tree, of course, isn't there anymore. 256 00:17:14,901 --> 00:17:17,804 I lived at 19 Flagg Street. 257 00:17:20,940 --> 00:17:23,776 I had this great little duplex house. 258 00:17:28,148 --> 00:17:30,817 It was a great place with a little backyard. 259 00:17:34,187 --> 00:17:38,191 Harvey moved to Flagg Street two houses away, 260 00:17:38,191 --> 00:17:40,127 and we had the two apartments. 261 00:17:44,231 --> 00:17:45,332 And the light was such, 262 00:17:45,332 --> 00:17:48,235 it was perfect for taking pictures 263 00:17:48,235 --> 00:17:49,669 in the middle of the night. 264 00:17:52,705 --> 00:17:54,474 Like a photo set. 265 00:17:57,644 --> 00:17:59,212 I didn't have a fancy lens 266 00:17:59,212 --> 00:18:01,514 that let you take pictures in the dark. 267 00:18:12,058 --> 00:18:13,360 One of the things that's fun 268 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,395 about going through a box like this... 269 00:18:15,962 --> 00:18:18,231 is that question, how things turn out. 270 00:18:18,665 --> 00:18:20,967 And one thing, when I look at these pictures 271 00:18:20,967 --> 00:18:22,402 of the Housebook, 272 00:18:23,403 --> 00:18:27,974 I can't help but feel about how many people are dead 273 00:18:28,241 --> 00:18:31,711 and how many people struggled. 274 00:18:32,044 --> 00:18:34,181 You can predict, predict, and predict, 275 00:18:34,181 --> 00:18:38,117 but life is still unpredictable. 276 00:18:38,618 --> 00:18:41,120 It certainly does something to me 277 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,355 when I go through a box, 278 00:18:42,355 --> 00:18:45,758 or I go through a lot of prints of the Housebook. 279 00:18:49,496 --> 00:18:52,465 I'm amazed how young we were, 280 00:18:57,003 --> 00:18:59,339 how many of us aren't still here. 281 00:18:59,939 --> 00:19:02,575 (soft music playing) 282 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,630 I think one thing about having all the pictures, 283 00:19:25,131 --> 00:19:28,768 you sort of search for like, the narrative. 284 00:19:29,336 --> 00:19:31,471 But there probably is no narrative. 285 00:19:31,471 --> 00:19:33,740 It's just sort of what happened. 286 00:19:34,006 --> 00:19:36,008 It doesn't go by a script. 287 00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:37,477 That's what I've decided. 288 00:19:38,745 --> 00:19:43,316 (music playing) 289 00:20:29,596 --> 00:20:30,663 Elsa: Dylan did something 290 00:20:30,663 --> 00:20:32,765 called the Rolling ThundermRevue. 291 00:20:33,633 --> 00:20:36,002 Before you went into the auditorium, 292 00:20:36,002 --> 00:20:38,271 they confiscated you not for guns, 293 00:20:38,271 --> 00:20:39,506 but for cameras. 294 00:20:40,106 --> 00:20:42,342 So I didn't have my camera, 295 00:20:42,742 --> 00:20:44,377 and Allen told Bob, 296 00:20:44,377 --> 00:20:47,213 "Oh, this is Elsa Dorfman, and she's a good photographer." 297 00:20:47,213 --> 00:20:49,316 And Bob said, "Well, where's your camera?" 298 00:20:49,316 --> 00:20:51,551 And I said, "They took it away from me." 299 00:20:51,551 --> 00:20:53,653 And he said, "Go tell them I said you could get it." 300 00:20:53,653 --> 00:20:55,988 So I had to go running to the car, 301 00:20:56,389 --> 00:20:58,525 get the camera, pass these guys, 302 00:20:58,525 --> 00:21:00,627 "I have permission, I have permission." 303 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:02,595 (laughs) 304 00:21:03,129 --> 00:21:05,131 And this is in between sets. 305 00:21:05,365 --> 00:21:06,833 It's like quote "the green room," 306 00:21:06,833 --> 00:21:08,768 it was a teacher's room. 307 00:21:11,738 --> 00:21:15,675 Somebody had been signed up to document the tour, 308 00:21:16,042 --> 00:21:18,645 and once they realized I knew how to focus a camera, 309 00:21:18,645 --> 00:21:21,614 they said, "Get her off the set. 310 00:21:22,482 --> 00:21:24,851 Get her off the set." 311 00:21:25,251 --> 00:21:27,654 And poor Bob, he couldn't do anything. 312 00:21:28,321 --> 00:21:30,623 This is on beautiful rag paper. 313 00:21:32,291 --> 00:21:34,761 This was a 35mm negative. 314 00:21:36,729 --> 00:21:40,032 And I've had this in postcard form. 315 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:42,735 Sounds very, like, 316 00:21:43,235 --> 00:21:45,505 ungracious to say, "Oh, I love that," 317 00:21:45,505 --> 00:21:49,642 but once I make them and I see them like this, 318 00:21:49,642 --> 00:21:54,381 I'm very separated from them in a way. 319 00:21:54,381 --> 00:21:55,982 Can't really say about your child, 320 00:21:55,982 --> 00:21:57,517 "Yeah, I know he's adorable. 321 00:21:57,517 --> 00:21:59,652 You know, he's really fabulous." 322 00:22:01,287 --> 00:22:04,223 But I can say that about my work. 323 00:22:04,457 --> 00:22:08,361 I mean, I feel proud and incredulous, 324 00:22:09,095 --> 00:22:12,098 but I don't feel falsely modest. 325 00:22:12,399 --> 00:22:13,800 But I don't feel bragging, either. 326 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,335 I feel, "Yeah, that's really great. 327 00:22:16,335 --> 00:22:19,706 "That's shitty, but this is great," you know? 328 00:22:20,106 --> 00:22:21,874 There's a separation, 329 00:22:22,542 --> 00:22:24,143 like it's gone off to college, 330 00:22:24,143 --> 00:22:26,112 and there it is getting its degree. 331 00:22:26,112 --> 00:22:27,580 (laughs) 332 00:22:31,918 --> 00:22:33,453 We're still a long way 333 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,355 from the realization of the concept 334 00:22:36,889 --> 00:22:40,893 of a camera that would be, oh, like the telephone, 335 00:22:41,260 --> 00:22:44,997 something that you use all day long. 336 00:22:45,264 --> 00:22:49,436 Whenever an occasion arises 337 00:22:49,436 --> 00:22:50,837 in which you want to make sure 338 00:22:50,837 --> 00:22:53,840 that you cannot trust your memory. 339 00:22:54,541 --> 00:22:58,144 I look forward to the time a few years from now... 340 00:22:59,879 --> 00:23:01,247 when you come here 341 00:23:01,748 --> 00:23:06,753 to share with us the excitement and deep satisfaction 342 00:23:07,186 --> 00:23:10,022 of seeing all this in operation 343 00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:12,324 and at the same time 344 00:23:12,692 --> 00:23:18,765 starting to use our ultimate camera 345 00:23:19,098 --> 00:23:23,536 that is a part of the evolving human being. 346 00:23:41,287 --> 00:23:42,989 Elsa: The 20 by 24 347 00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:48,561 took Cambridge by blitz. 348 00:23:55,001 --> 00:23:59,171 Polaroid had an Artist Support Program. 349 00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:04,777 There were like ten people that were invited. 350 00:24:07,714 --> 00:24:08,815 I wasn't on that list, 351 00:24:08,815 --> 00:24:11,150 but of course I went and I saw it. 352 00:24:15,722 --> 00:24:19,659 I was already interested in large format. 353 00:24:21,728 --> 00:24:25,197 Carpenter Center got something called the Itek machine. 354 00:24:25,532 --> 00:24:28,535 You put in a 35 millimeter negative, 355 00:24:29,468 --> 00:24:31,871 and low and behold, 356 00:24:32,304 --> 00:24:35,041 you got a big print. 357 00:24:36,375 --> 00:24:38,377 So, I mean, the image will be familiar, 358 00:24:38,845 --> 00:24:42,682 but here it is in the Itek machine form. 359 00:24:46,686 --> 00:24:51,524 So already my mind was thinking big, okay? 360 00:24:52,258 --> 00:24:56,529 So I'm just gonna show you these because I'm interested myself, 361 00:24:56,529 --> 00:24:58,931 I haven't looked at these in like 30 years. 362 00:25:04,136 --> 00:25:06,272 And so here's another fragment. 363 00:25:06,606 --> 00:25:09,842 It was very fragile paper and it would come out 364 00:25:09,842 --> 00:25:13,646 and you'd have to put it in stop and fixer. 365 00:25:14,146 --> 00:25:15,982 But this much came out 366 00:25:16,415 --> 00:25:18,651 like as if it were a Xerox copier. 367 00:25:19,318 --> 00:25:22,154 Here's a Harvard graduation. 368 00:25:22,521 --> 00:25:24,924 This is so typical of the times. 369 00:25:25,592 --> 00:25:28,427 Here's a guy with his Ph.D., 370 00:25:28,628 --> 00:25:31,631 and his wife is cradling an infant. 371 00:25:33,866 --> 00:25:35,668 But this is kind of great. 372 00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:40,873 But unlike the 20 by 24, 373 00:25:41,073 --> 00:25:43,776 where you look at a 20 by 24 picture 374 00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:46,579 and you know that the impetus 375 00:25:46,579 --> 00:25:49,415 and the expression of the picture 376 00:25:49,716 --> 00:25:52,184 partly exist because of the camera, 377 00:25:52,619 --> 00:25:57,156 these are taken by a 35mm and blown up, 378 00:25:57,890 --> 00:26:00,526 and they don't have any of the juice 379 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,663 of a different camera or a different format 380 00:26:03,663 --> 00:26:06,298 or a different relationship with the photographer. 381 00:26:06,633 --> 00:26:08,935 The whole scale and everything 382 00:26:09,235 --> 00:26:14,106 comes from the process after the picture is taken. 383 00:26:14,373 --> 00:26:16,575 Whereas in the 20 by 24, 384 00:26:17,209 --> 00:26:21,280 the picture and the process are the same. 385 00:26:21,881 --> 00:26:24,851 But I think that holding up a big picture 386 00:26:25,117 --> 00:26:28,254 led to my comfort with the 20 by 24. 387 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,657 So I think it was an important-- 388 00:26:31,824 --> 00:26:36,328 That if you were making some sort of arty or academic, 389 00:26:36,896 --> 00:26:38,898 this led to this led to this-- 390 00:26:39,265 --> 00:26:42,401 You could say that playing with the Itek machine 391 00:26:42,702 --> 00:26:46,238 led to my comfort with the 20 by 24. 392 00:26:47,406 --> 00:26:49,776 And my compulsion with it. 393 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:52,945 Okay. Now look right at the lens, 394 00:26:52,945 --> 00:26:54,714 don't look at me, even though it's very tempting. 395 00:26:54,714 --> 00:26:55,982 Look right at the lens. 396 00:26:56,182 --> 00:26:58,918 Man: Elsa is one of several photographers in the country 397 00:26:58,918 --> 00:27:02,388 who regularly rents this rare 20 by 24 camera, 398 00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:04,490 one of only five in the world, 399 00:27:04,691 --> 00:27:06,492 located at the School of the Museum 400 00:27:06,492 --> 00:27:07,927 of Fine Arts, Boston. 401 00:27:07,927 --> 00:27:10,262 Elsa: I love the 20 by 24. 402 00:27:10,830 --> 00:27:12,431 There's something really marvelous 403 00:27:12,431 --> 00:27:16,703 about the scale and the clarity that makes it heroic. 404 00:27:16,903 --> 00:27:20,372 My style of photography is very literary... 405 00:27:20,606 --> 00:27:22,608 Woman: Oh, God. Oh, God. 406 00:27:22,608 --> 00:27:23,776 Oh, great, oh, good. 407 00:27:23,776 --> 00:27:25,845 Elsa: Influenced by Allen Ginsberg's poetry 408 00:27:25,845 --> 00:27:30,516 in the acceptance of detail and everydayness-- 409 00:27:30,516 --> 00:27:34,553 what you're wearing is okay and who you are is okay 410 00:27:34,553 --> 00:27:36,789 and you don't have to be cosmeticized. 411 00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:39,726 And so I've always taken pictures of my family 412 00:27:39,726 --> 00:27:41,227 and the people that I know, 413 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,364 and I have lots of pictures of my son and my husband. 414 00:27:45,698 --> 00:27:47,767 You know, I just was looking for medium, 415 00:27:47,767 --> 00:27:50,202 and I just found it. 416 00:27:56,709 --> 00:28:00,079 This was the first time I used the 20 by 24. 417 00:28:01,413 --> 00:28:03,950 I made a deal with Polaroid 418 00:28:03,950 --> 00:28:07,419 that I would take Allen's picture 419 00:28:07,653 --> 00:28:09,889 and they could keep the two best. 420 00:28:10,256 --> 00:28:11,657 So I have to tell you 421 00:28:11,924 --> 00:28:16,395 that the two best are owned by Polaroid, 422 00:28:16,595 --> 00:28:18,798 but not really by Polaroid 423 00:28:19,131 --> 00:28:20,900 because now they've been dispersed 424 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:22,969 and I don't know who owns them. 425 00:28:24,837 --> 00:28:26,939 This is 1980. 426 00:28:28,841 --> 00:28:31,210 Harvey had bought me an amaryllis. 427 00:28:32,845 --> 00:28:36,348 We grabbed the amaryllis, Allen and I. 428 00:28:39,351 --> 00:28:40,586 I'm gonna hold it up like this 429 00:28:40,586 --> 00:28:43,956 because my shirt matches the amaryllis. 430 00:28:45,124 --> 00:28:46,325 Ta-da! 431 00:28:58,370 --> 00:29:00,639 You've got to understand that Allen Ginsberg 432 00:29:00,873 --> 00:29:02,909 really understood a camera. 433 00:29:03,609 --> 00:29:06,012 He could disarm himself, 434 00:29:07,746 --> 00:29:09,481 so he wasn't guarded. 435 00:29:13,285 --> 00:29:15,387 This is from '82. 436 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:20,927 Look at the focus on the beard. 437 00:29:21,961 --> 00:29:24,363 There'll never be film like this again 438 00:29:24,363 --> 00:29:25,764 ever, ever, ever. 439 00:29:30,269 --> 00:29:32,839 Interviewer: Oh, wow, I've never even seen this, Elsa. 440 00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:34,706 Elsa: No, how could you have seen it? 441 00:29:34,706 --> 00:29:36,876 I haven't seen it in 20 years. 442 00:29:40,813 --> 00:29:42,381 It's so funny, isn't it? 443 00:29:51,223 --> 00:29:54,861 Now I know that this is one that Polaroid had. 444 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,871 I think I made two of these and Polaroid kept one. 445 00:30:12,611 --> 00:30:14,513 Now I'm gonna show you something 446 00:30:15,647 --> 00:30:17,917 about how fragile this is. 447 00:30:19,285 --> 00:30:21,253 I don't know whether you can take a picture of it, 448 00:30:21,253 --> 00:30:24,390 but in the back here, there's a crack. 449 00:30:26,392 --> 00:30:28,961 I don't know whether you care, but right here. 450 00:30:29,996 --> 00:30:31,697 Even though this is very good paper, 451 00:30:31,697 --> 00:30:33,365 and this is early paper, 452 00:30:34,366 --> 00:30:36,435 it's really fragile. 453 00:30:41,373 --> 00:30:43,542 Ah! Here's Jonathan. 454 00:30:44,977 --> 00:30:47,179 This is one of the very first pictures I did, 455 00:30:47,179 --> 00:30:53,085 and Jonathan came down from Maine... 456 00:30:54,220 --> 00:30:57,623 where he was living and I took this picture. 457 00:30:59,191 --> 00:31:01,327 So let's see what I wrote on it. 458 00:31:02,461 --> 00:31:03,695 You can see that this is 459 00:31:03,695 --> 00:31:06,065 before I made the pictures longer. 460 00:31:06,265 --> 00:31:09,035 This is where the pod broke open 461 00:31:09,035 --> 00:31:12,171 and I cut, trimmed the paper right there. 462 00:31:12,438 --> 00:31:15,507 Later, as I got used to taking the pictures, 463 00:31:16,042 --> 00:31:18,110 I made them longer. 464 00:31:19,178 --> 00:31:25,017 So this says "Jonathan Richman in from Unity, Maine in 1981." 465 00:32:37,456 --> 00:32:39,225 Man: All right, now we're going to turn 466 00:32:39,225 --> 00:32:42,461 -to the two of them. -(laughing) 467 00:32:44,663 --> 00:32:46,332 Let's wave to the future. 468 00:32:53,072 --> 00:32:56,542 (soft music playing) 469 00:33:06,618 --> 00:33:09,688 Elsa: I have everything in these flat files. 470 00:33:29,775 --> 00:33:32,044 Let's see, this is in 1981, 471 00:33:33,045 --> 00:33:36,482 and there's my mother. 472 00:33:36,482 --> 00:33:39,418 Now I'm older than my mother in this picture. 473 00:33:42,754 --> 00:33:44,990 My father, and Isaac, and me. 474 00:33:45,424 --> 00:33:48,294 And some Legos, Isaac was a big Lego freak. 475 00:33:50,229 --> 00:33:54,800 And this is one of the few times that I had red background. 476 00:33:59,905 --> 00:34:01,807 Interviewer: And the red background was? 477 00:34:01,807 --> 00:34:03,109 Just there. 478 00:34:05,711 --> 00:34:09,181 Because it's a big deal to change the seamless. 479 00:34:18,124 --> 00:34:19,425 It's interesting to me 480 00:34:19,525 --> 00:34:22,161 because I look at my mother and father, and I wonder... 481 00:34:22,428 --> 00:34:27,199 so who am I like and where did I get what? 482 00:34:28,167 --> 00:34:30,402 And now to see them looking young, 483 00:34:33,905 --> 00:34:36,608 they never looked young, but now they look young. 484 00:34:48,554 --> 00:34:51,623 This one, let me just see what this is, 485 00:34:51,623 --> 00:34:53,825 it looks really sad. 486 00:34:54,693 --> 00:34:55,994 This is a camera error. 487 00:34:55,994 --> 00:34:59,165 My clothes aren't really looking like that. 488 00:35:00,332 --> 00:35:02,834 It's something in the film called mottle, 489 00:35:02,834 --> 00:35:04,803 M-O-T-T-L-E, 490 00:35:05,237 --> 00:35:07,473 and it has to do with the rollers. 491 00:35:09,275 --> 00:35:13,312 It's like the camera knew what I was going through. 492 00:35:14,613 --> 00:35:17,082 "My mother called four times today. 493 00:35:17,649 --> 00:35:22,154 She doesn't know who I am or where I live or what I do. 494 00:35:22,154 --> 00:35:24,423 She doesn't remember Harvey or Isaac. 495 00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:27,125 I asked her if she wanted to die. 496 00:35:27,359 --> 00:35:30,396 'Elsa, sometimes you're ridiculous.'" 497 00:35:34,566 --> 00:35:37,369 My mother was always telling me I was ridiculous. 498 00:35:46,212 --> 00:35:48,514 "Elsa, you're ridiculous." 499 00:35:55,954 --> 00:35:59,425 And so one of her last cogent things 500 00:35:59,425 --> 00:36:03,395 was telling me I was ridiculous. 501 00:36:04,095 --> 00:36:05,431 And it's true, 502 00:36:05,431 --> 00:36:08,734 I would stand at that telephone over there. 503 00:36:08,734 --> 00:36:11,203 It would be my mother like ten times, 504 00:36:11,203 --> 00:36:14,673 and it was the most awful, 505 00:36:15,407 --> 00:36:18,477 awful, awful experience, 506 00:36:18,477 --> 00:36:22,214 was my mother dying, my mother and my father both. 507 00:36:26,885 --> 00:36:28,720 Oh, here I am, 508 00:36:29,421 --> 00:36:31,290 here I am, here I am. 509 00:36:32,891 --> 00:36:36,027 Here I am with a picture of my mother and father 510 00:36:36,362 --> 00:36:39,298 holding their wedding picture. 511 00:36:45,537 --> 00:36:48,039 And it says, "My father died last night. 512 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,642 My mother said goodbye Dorfie. 513 00:36:50,876 --> 00:36:53,712 September 24, 1997." 514 00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:00,652 It was just awful. 515 00:37:01,820 --> 00:37:04,990 My father tried to escape from the nursing home. 516 00:37:04,990 --> 00:37:06,958 He got as far as the bus stop, 517 00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:09,395 he had the sense to wait for a bus, 518 00:37:10,128 --> 00:37:12,398 and they sent his favorite nurse out 519 00:37:12,398 --> 00:37:16,268 to talk him into coming back into the building. 520 00:37:16,502 --> 00:37:17,869 I thought it was a sign 521 00:37:17,869 --> 00:37:20,038 of my father's well being that he could-- 522 00:37:20,038 --> 00:37:24,376 That he wanted to escape, and he could carry it off. 523 00:37:27,212 --> 00:37:30,248 But I was the only one. 524 00:37:33,752 --> 00:37:34,920 It was awful. 525 00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:51,370 (soft music playing) 526 00:38:04,850 --> 00:38:07,619 Elsa: What I really feel like doing in this darkroom 527 00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:11,623 is having like a darkroom museum. 528 00:38:26,605 --> 00:38:29,741 Everything has a story in this darkroom. 529 00:38:31,643 --> 00:38:32,644 This-- 530 00:38:34,279 --> 00:38:36,081 I was gonna say, I don't want to open it 531 00:38:36,081 --> 00:38:37,983 and expose any film that's in here. 532 00:38:37,983 --> 00:38:38,984 (laughs) 533 00:38:39,284 --> 00:38:42,020 Oh, here's film that's probably dead-- 534 00:38:42,488 --> 00:38:44,856 Ilford, Ilford film. 535 00:38:47,192 --> 00:38:49,495 Oh, this is a little panoramic camera. 536 00:38:49,495 --> 00:38:51,797 What I thought it was is a dollar camera. 537 00:38:51,797 --> 00:38:55,967 A dollar camera was a very big hit in the '60s, 538 00:38:55,967 --> 00:38:58,269 and it was a great way of showing people 539 00:38:58,269 --> 00:38:59,838 how to take pictures. 540 00:39:00,338 --> 00:39:03,375 I bet they don't even sell these anymore. 541 00:39:04,476 --> 00:39:07,245 I can see that the darkroom was a repository 542 00:39:07,245 --> 00:39:09,347 for what I didn't want to throw away. 543 00:39:09,347 --> 00:39:11,450 Here's actually something essential. 544 00:39:12,884 --> 00:39:14,853 This is a light bar 545 00:39:15,521 --> 00:39:17,823 you would put on a Polaroid camera 546 00:39:18,424 --> 00:39:19,825 to light a picture. 547 00:39:20,358 --> 00:39:22,060 And then they stopped making them, 548 00:39:22,060 --> 00:39:23,562 it was a disaster. 549 00:39:24,496 --> 00:39:27,699 "For Polaroid's SX-70 film cameras." 550 00:39:43,449 --> 00:39:45,784 Don't you remember the first time you saw it? 551 00:39:47,018 --> 00:39:48,587 It is magical. 552 00:39:50,656 --> 00:39:53,324 And after a lifetime in the darkroom, 553 00:39:53,324 --> 00:39:55,527 it seems more magical. 554 00:40:13,445 --> 00:40:16,448 When I was on the 20 by 24, 555 00:40:18,149 --> 00:40:19,350 I was like... 556 00:40:19,785 --> 00:40:22,420 the most excited person in the world. 557 00:40:25,524 --> 00:40:28,694 I had never dreamt that the next 30 years, 558 00:40:28,694 --> 00:40:30,529 that's what I would be doing. 559 00:40:35,366 --> 00:40:38,369 I wanted to keep on taking pictures 560 00:40:38,369 --> 00:40:39,871 on the 20 by 24. 561 00:40:43,509 --> 00:40:47,278 And you had to be in this inner circle. 562 00:40:47,278 --> 00:40:52,584 It was really hard to break the line of their pets... 563 00:40:54,553 --> 00:40:57,055 really. Because I was never a pet. 564 00:40:57,656 --> 00:41:00,892 And I just hung in there. 565 00:41:01,426 --> 00:41:04,329 I always was charged for every roll of film, 566 00:41:04,329 --> 00:41:06,097 I never got a free box of film, 567 00:41:06,097 --> 00:41:11,537 I never got a free SX-70, I never got anything. 568 00:41:11,803 --> 00:41:13,371 But anyhow, I can't complain 569 00:41:13,371 --> 00:41:14,806 because I ended up with the camera. 570 00:41:14,806 --> 00:41:18,777 But that was from being a nag. 571 00:41:18,977 --> 00:41:20,612 (laughs) 572 00:41:21,479 --> 00:41:24,182 I kept saying, "Well, I want to rent a camera, 573 00:41:24,182 --> 00:41:27,385 I want to buy a camera, I want to make a camera." 574 00:41:27,385 --> 00:41:28,754 And I got to be friendly 575 00:41:28,754 --> 00:41:31,022 with different people at Polaroid, 576 00:41:31,356 --> 00:41:33,324 and I found out that there was a camera 577 00:41:33,324 --> 00:41:35,360 that was coming back from Japan. 578 00:41:35,961 --> 00:41:42,200 That put a hole in their theory that there was no camera. 579 00:41:42,968 --> 00:41:44,402 So they said, 580 00:41:44,736 --> 00:41:47,472 "Well, you have to find a decent place to put it." 581 00:41:47,673 --> 00:41:48,940 And it so happened 582 00:41:48,940 --> 00:41:54,512 that Harvey had a relationship with Harold Brown. 583 00:41:54,713 --> 00:41:57,983 And Harold Brown bought a building, 584 00:41:58,349 --> 00:42:00,786 955 Mass. Ave., 585 00:42:00,786 --> 00:42:03,088 which was two blocks from our house. 586 00:42:05,624 --> 00:42:06,758 Polaroid said, 587 00:42:06,858 --> 00:42:09,260 "Okay, if you're gonna be in this building, 588 00:42:10,228 --> 00:42:11,797 I'll rent you the camera." 589 00:42:28,980 --> 00:42:31,282 Elsa: I can't really explain it too much, 590 00:42:31,282 --> 00:42:35,553 but portraits have always been what's interesting to me. 591 00:42:36,822 --> 00:42:40,291 And I try to make people feel comfortable 592 00:42:40,525 --> 00:42:45,430 so that they'll give a lot of themselves. 593 00:42:45,831 --> 00:42:49,000 But I'm not-- Don't want to invade them 594 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,169 to get more than they're willing to give. 595 00:42:51,402 --> 00:42:55,240 And I like to say to people, 596 00:42:55,607 --> 00:42:56,675 "You're responsible 597 00:42:56,742 --> 00:42:58,109 for how you look in front of my camera. 598 00:42:58,109 --> 00:43:00,646 You can't come in front of my camera 599 00:43:00,646 --> 00:43:02,648 and expect me to do it all." 600 00:43:02,648 --> 00:43:04,515 I mean, I've had like adolescents say, 601 00:43:04,883 --> 00:43:06,752 "Well, this is what you're gonna get." 602 00:43:06,752 --> 00:43:08,620 And you know, I sort of said like, "Fuck you. 603 00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:09,921 You know, this is what you're giving me, 604 00:43:09,921 --> 00:43:11,623 this is what you're gonna get back. 605 00:43:13,692 --> 00:43:15,393 This is no airbrush studio, 606 00:43:15,393 --> 00:43:16,995 this is what you're gonna get!" 607 00:43:20,598 --> 00:43:23,802 I'm really interested in the surfaces of people. 608 00:43:24,202 --> 00:43:29,140 I am totally not interested in capturing their souls. 609 00:43:33,812 --> 00:43:38,717 I'm only interested in how they seem. 610 00:43:42,253 --> 00:43:44,923 That's how I feel about my portraits 611 00:43:44,923 --> 00:43:48,794 and how, for me, portraiture works. 612 00:44:43,314 --> 00:44:45,550 Interviewer: When did you come up with this idea, 613 00:44:45,851 --> 00:44:47,719 how you would sell these? 614 00:44:49,888 --> 00:44:52,858 Elsa: It wasn't a thought-out plan at all. 615 00:44:56,161 --> 00:44:59,130 I had to pay the rent for Mass. Ave., 616 00:44:59,130 --> 00:45:01,332 I had to pay the rent on the camera, 617 00:45:01,332 --> 00:45:02,768 and I had to pay for the film. 618 00:45:03,001 --> 00:45:04,936 So I had to charge money, 619 00:45:04,936 --> 00:45:06,938 so I always tried to charge 620 00:45:06,938 --> 00:45:12,210 as much as I reasonably thought I could earn. 621 00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:14,412 First place, it was impossible 622 00:45:14,780 --> 00:45:16,381 to get into a gallery. 623 00:45:16,381 --> 00:45:17,582 I didn't have the work 624 00:45:17,582 --> 00:45:19,617 and I didn't have the personality 625 00:45:20,185 --> 00:45:26,391 to interest any Boston dealer in representing me. 626 00:45:27,258 --> 00:45:29,694 There was one who did represent me 627 00:45:29,694 --> 00:45:31,096 and gave me a show, 628 00:45:31,662 --> 00:45:33,098 but it wasn't for me. 629 00:45:33,932 --> 00:45:35,033 And I probably did 630 00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,335 as well as I could have done with a gallery. 631 00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:40,038 (sighs) I don't know the answer. 632 00:45:41,306 --> 00:45:44,675 I did what felt like an extension of myself, 633 00:45:44,675 --> 00:45:46,778 like, "Oh, this is something Elsa would do," 634 00:45:46,778 --> 00:45:48,079 you know what I mean? 635 00:45:48,546 --> 00:45:50,181 As opposed to doing something 636 00:45:50,181 --> 00:45:52,317 that I felt, "What is Elsa doing?" 637 00:45:55,887 --> 00:45:59,090 Everything I did made sense if you knew me. 638 00:46:01,459 --> 00:46:03,228 Or if you knew me and Harvey. 639 00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:34,826 This was my 50th birthday. 640 00:46:37,228 --> 00:46:40,165 Harvey bought me these black balloons. 641 00:46:42,868 --> 00:46:45,536 He was walking near his office, 642 00:46:45,536 --> 00:46:49,975 and he saw a guy in a tuxedo delivering black balloons. 643 00:46:50,575 --> 00:46:51,977 And he got the idea, 644 00:46:51,977 --> 00:46:56,214 "That's what I'll give her, black balloons." 645 00:46:57,115 --> 00:47:00,185 Isaac comes home from school and the doorbell rings, 646 00:47:00,418 --> 00:47:04,222 and it's a guy delivering black balloons. 647 00:47:04,222 --> 00:47:05,190 And so I said, 648 00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:07,492 "We've got to take a picture with this." 649 00:47:08,059 --> 00:47:10,328 I took one shot and this was it. 650 00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:15,033 I think for the next 11 years, 651 00:47:15,033 --> 00:47:17,535 Harvey gave me black balloons on my birthday. 652 00:47:17,835 --> 00:47:19,370 And it wouldn't be so funny 653 00:47:19,370 --> 00:47:22,440 except that Harvey was not a "Happy Birthday" person. 654 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:23,875 When I turned 75, 655 00:47:23,875 --> 00:47:26,711 he went the whole day before saying to me, 656 00:47:26,711 --> 00:47:27,845 "Happy Birthday." 657 00:47:28,446 --> 00:47:30,448 You know, you want to murder the guy. 658 00:47:32,217 --> 00:47:35,753 He was not one for Valentine's Day 659 00:47:35,753 --> 00:47:38,456 or anything like that. 660 00:47:39,390 --> 00:47:43,028 This is another one of the birthday ones. 661 00:47:43,962 --> 00:47:47,532 So that one was my 51st birthday in '88. 662 00:47:49,167 --> 00:47:52,137 So this is 54, a few years later. 663 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,874 Isaac has really changed in this one. 664 00:48:00,378 --> 00:48:02,847 And we looked so funny padding around the house 665 00:48:02,847 --> 00:48:05,583 in our warm red nightgowns. 666 00:48:06,151 --> 00:48:09,087 I said, "Oh, we have to go over to the studio." 667 00:48:09,787 --> 00:48:13,724 And this shows how game Harvey could be, 668 00:48:14,025 --> 00:48:17,362 for all his, "Your birthday," 669 00:48:17,362 --> 00:48:22,100 he did stop what he was doing and take a picture, 670 00:48:22,433 --> 00:48:27,338 go over, change his clothes, and pose in front of the camera. 671 00:48:30,641 --> 00:48:33,644 (soft music playing) 672 00:48:43,388 --> 00:48:46,124 Elsa: My work is about affection. 673 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:50,795 People come to me 674 00:48:51,462 --> 00:48:54,399 and they want the picture taken either out of affection 675 00:48:54,665 --> 00:48:57,135 for the person they're giving the photograph to, 676 00:48:57,735 --> 00:49:03,341 or affection for the person they're gonna be with. 677 00:49:03,908 --> 00:49:06,611 It's very family-oriented. 678 00:49:36,941 --> 00:49:39,777 When I first started, the very first time 679 00:49:40,245 --> 00:49:44,015 I showed my Polaroids was at MIT, 680 00:49:44,615 --> 00:49:48,119 and they matted them and got rid of the borders. 681 00:49:48,886 --> 00:49:51,122 And I had to complain 682 00:49:51,389 --> 00:49:54,292 and say, "No, no, no, I have to have the borders." 683 00:49:54,492 --> 00:49:56,561 And they said, "All right, all right," 684 00:49:56,561 --> 00:49:58,763 you know, "this woman is a pain in the ass. 685 00:49:58,963 --> 00:50:00,298 All right, all right." 686 00:50:01,432 --> 00:50:02,567 And they did it. 687 00:50:05,236 --> 00:50:06,671 These marks right here 688 00:50:06,971 --> 00:50:09,574 are like the tire marks on the side 689 00:50:09,574 --> 00:50:12,077 as the roller is going through the camera. 690 00:50:12,077 --> 00:50:14,145 So those actually mean something. 691 00:50:14,145 --> 00:50:16,547 You can actually tell which camera 692 00:50:17,348 --> 00:50:20,051 is being used by the tire marks. 693 00:50:20,051 --> 00:50:23,254 And my tires have never been changed. 694 00:50:38,669 --> 00:50:42,740 Elsa: The camera is like a fork or a spoon. 695 00:50:44,375 --> 00:50:48,679 It's an instrument that you eat your soup with. 696 00:50:49,714 --> 00:50:51,116 It's not the soup. 697 00:50:57,288 --> 00:50:59,757 So it depends upon who's holding the camera 698 00:50:59,757 --> 00:51:02,160 and who's doing the photograph. 699 00:51:11,436 --> 00:51:14,839 I think a lot of my work, people have said, 700 00:51:14,839 --> 00:51:16,674 "Oh, her work is too sunny." 701 00:51:18,042 --> 00:51:22,980 The explanation is, in my life I've worked hard not to be down. 702 00:51:22,980 --> 00:51:24,415 Life when you're down is hard enough, 703 00:51:24,415 --> 00:51:26,684 you don't need to walk around with a picture of it. 704 00:51:32,757 --> 00:51:34,625 I'm not good at... 705 00:51:36,994 --> 00:51:39,264 "Oh yeah, it's really bad." 706 00:51:40,064 --> 00:51:44,802 "Your mother is a witch, your husband is awful." 707 00:51:45,102 --> 00:51:48,506 "The food is lousy. Yeah, you're right. 708 00:51:48,739 --> 00:51:50,241 You should hear my story." 709 00:51:50,841 --> 00:51:52,510 I'm not that kind of person. 710 00:52:02,487 --> 00:52:05,590 I don't like to take pictures of people who are sad. 711 00:52:08,593 --> 00:52:11,329 And I don't like to take pictures 712 00:52:11,329 --> 00:52:13,364 of people who are broken-hearted. 713 00:52:18,436 --> 00:52:22,607 I somehow have this misguided therapeutic idea 714 00:52:22,607 --> 00:52:26,644 that it's my role in the universe 715 00:52:26,911 --> 00:52:28,746 to make people feel better. 716 00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:37,588 "This'll be easy. Look, it's easy. 717 00:52:39,824 --> 00:52:41,192 Let's have fun." 718 00:52:50,268 --> 00:52:53,238 So I do whip up a certain energy. 719 00:53:22,032 --> 00:53:25,636 Interviewer: So you've taken thousands of these? 720 00:53:27,305 --> 00:53:29,574 Don't forget, a lot of these are mistakes. 721 00:53:29,974 --> 00:53:32,243 But because they're 20 by 24s, 722 00:53:32,710 --> 00:53:35,980 they're too expensive to throw away. 723 00:53:36,847 --> 00:53:38,783 Interviewer: A lot of these are mistakes? 724 00:53:38,783 --> 00:53:42,753 Yeah, because when I have a client, I take two. 725 00:53:43,153 --> 00:53:47,725 And the client chooses one and the other one is a reject. 726 00:53:49,627 --> 00:53:53,864 This is the one that the family didn't take. 727 00:53:54,365 --> 00:53:55,933 I call the B-side. 728 00:53:59,504 --> 00:54:03,541 You know how in music there's an A-side and a B-side? 729 00:54:09,580 --> 00:54:11,582 I can see by looking at this one, 730 00:54:11,582 --> 00:54:13,551 which has so much charm to it, 731 00:54:14,151 --> 00:54:16,954 this is probably better than the one they did take. 732 00:54:27,498 --> 00:54:28,766 Here's another one. 733 00:54:29,634 --> 00:54:33,638 And so this is sort of a good panorama 734 00:54:33,638 --> 00:54:37,575 of what people were wearing for sneakers 13 years ago. 735 00:54:45,316 --> 00:54:46,984 Very often, they have blinks 736 00:54:49,086 --> 00:54:51,121 and it's really the unusual family 737 00:54:51,121 --> 00:54:52,657 that will take one with a kid blinking. 738 00:54:52,657 --> 00:54:54,659 But this is not a bad blink. 739 00:54:55,225 --> 00:54:56,594 He's really cute. 740 00:54:57,094 --> 00:54:59,530 Just let me see again, hold on. 741 00:55:00,465 --> 00:55:03,934 Red-haired and blue-eyed 742 00:55:03,934 --> 00:55:07,838 or certainly green-eyed people blink in the lights. 743 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:10,775 Yeah, they really do. 744 00:55:11,942 --> 00:55:14,645 Like here's one that's really cute and it-- 745 00:55:15,980 --> 00:55:18,749 And the people, probably, didn't like the mother. 746 00:55:19,584 --> 00:55:21,652 But I think it's adorable. 747 00:55:31,161 --> 00:55:33,564 Now, they look perfectly wonderful. 748 00:55:34,264 --> 00:55:35,733 I don't see anything wrong with this one. 749 00:55:35,733 --> 00:55:37,802 Why didn't the family want it? 750 00:55:42,339 --> 00:55:43,941 Oh, now here's one. 751 00:55:45,342 --> 00:55:46,611 Look at this. 752 00:55:50,948 --> 00:55:53,117 God knows what caused this. 753 00:55:54,251 --> 00:55:55,886 This is from the camera. 754 00:55:56,521 --> 00:56:01,025 The color is from a problem with the film but I love it. 755 00:56:05,530 --> 00:56:07,031 Interviewer: The other part of this process 756 00:56:07,031 --> 00:56:10,968 that fascinates me is the element of perishability. 757 00:56:12,102 --> 00:56:13,103 Right. 758 00:56:13,638 --> 00:56:16,941 Interviewer: Fugitive color, fugitive images. 759 00:56:20,044 --> 00:56:21,512 I try to deny it. 760 00:56:22,179 --> 00:56:24,415 I would say in the last year, 761 00:56:24,415 --> 00:56:26,684 I've had an awakening 762 00:56:27,051 --> 00:56:28,118 because... 763 00:56:30,721 --> 00:56:36,494 ...I don't think I had any idea how fugitive they really were. 764 00:56:41,932 --> 00:56:45,069 So the warning I gave my clients was, 765 00:56:45,570 --> 00:56:48,172 "Keep your portrait out of the direct sun. 766 00:56:48,473 --> 00:56:50,741 Polish your frame rarely and when you do, 767 00:56:50,741 --> 00:56:53,077 use Plexiglas cleaner and a soft cloth. 768 00:56:53,377 --> 00:56:56,180 Never, ever use Windex and paper towel. 769 00:56:57,014 --> 00:56:58,015 Enjoy." 770 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,910 Isaac and Harvey had been hanging on the wall 771 00:57:27,444 --> 00:57:29,580 since we moved into this house. 772 00:57:33,083 --> 00:57:35,553 (soft music playing) 773 00:58:01,045 --> 00:58:03,781 The 40 by 80s represent a Polaroid 774 00:58:03,781 --> 00:58:06,150 that completely disappeared. 775 00:58:07,952 --> 00:58:12,523 There's never going to be a 40 by 80 Polaroid again, ever. 776 00:58:34,779 --> 00:58:38,983 Color Services, they're gonna copy the 40 by 80s 777 00:58:38,983 --> 00:58:40,751 and then tell me whether I should put them 778 00:58:40,751 --> 00:58:44,555 back in frames or how I should store them. 779 00:59:02,740 --> 00:59:06,243 I knew from the Polaroid grape vine 780 00:59:07,912 --> 00:59:10,480 that they were working with a 40 by 80. 781 00:59:10,781 --> 00:59:13,584 The Polaroid grape vine is where you found out everything. 782 00:59:13,784 --> 00:59:15,252 "Oh, yeah, I can't do this 783 00:59:15,252 --> 00:59:18,656 because tomorrow I'm working at the museum on the 40 by 80." 784 00:59:18,656 --> 00:59:21,325 Or, "Can you imagine the film isn't ready?" 785 00:59:21,626 --> 00:59:22,760 More grousing. 786 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:23,994 "Can you imagine? 787 00:59:24,328 --> 00:59:27,131 Can't count on those people down in packaging." 788 00:59:27,131 --> 00:59:28,132 Oh, you know. 789 00:59:31,769 --> 00:59:35,906 The camera was like a room with a hole for a lens. 790 00:59:40,945 --> 00:59:43,413 You were outside and there was a pedestal 791 00:59:43,914 --> 00:59:46,684 and you're standing like at this height. 792 00:59:47,217 --> 00:59:50,587 The rollers for the lens 793 00:59:50,587 --> 00:59:54,024 had to be as big as this, this is 1:1. 794 00:59:54,391 --> 00:59:59,363 And any little sneeze then, 795 00:59:59,630 --> 01:00:01,632 where you went slower, 796 01:00:02,132 --> 01:00:05,736 would be a different color than if you picked up your pace. 797 01:00:05,736 --> 01:00:08,372 And if you're not even, you can really see it. 798 01:00:27,925 --> 01:00:30,060 Interviewer: The idea of writing these captions, 799 01:00:30,728 --> 01:00:32,196 where did that come from? 800 01:00:36,701 --> 01:00:38,969 Elsa: I kind of liked the idea 801 01:00:38,969 --> 01:00:41,105 because then you know when you took it. 802 01:00:42,973 --> 01:00:45,876 I mean, it's so instinctive and intuitive. 803 01:00:50,981 --> 01:00:56,220 So I did it, then Allen, 804 01:00:57,487 --> 01:00:58,989 when he started to take pictures, 805 01:00:58,989 --> 01:01:00,925 he wrote under his pictures. 806 01:01:04,328 --> 01:01:06,596 He actually, in an interview, 807 01:01:07,197 --> 01:01:09,633 says that he got the idea from me. 808 01:01:09,834 --> 01:01:11,902 I mean, it's not a very big idea. 809 01:01:47,204 --> 01:01:48,939 Interviewer: Well, tell me about the circumstances 810 01:01:48,939 --> 01:01:50,374 of this photograph. 811 01:01:51,375 --> 01:01:53,010 Elsa: Allen was coming to town 812 01:01:53,243 --> 01:01:58,883 and I got Polaroid to let me use the 40 by 80. 813 01:02:01,518 --> 01:02:03,854 First, we did the dressed one 814 01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:06,757 and I think Allen's wearing his suit 815 01:02:06,757 --> 01:02:08,793 that he actually got buried in. 816 01:02:17,768 --> 01:02:23,073 Then once we hung up that dressed one, 817 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,844 it sort of was like a normal response. 818 01:02:26,844 --> 01:02:31,348 "Oh, why don't we take-- Put that behind a naked one?" 819 01:02:31,615 --> 01:02:34,718 It wasn't like an act of genius. 820 01:02:34,919 --> 01:02:36,186 It was just like, 821 01:02:36,854 --> 01:02:39,523 "Well, we have the ice cream and we have the cones. 822 01:02:39,523 --> 01:02:42,426 Why don't we put the ice cream on top of the cone?" 823 01:02:42,426 --> 01:02:43,527 I mean, like... 824 01:02:49,967 --> 01:02:55,072 There were no test shots and no rehearsal. 825 01:02:57,607 --> 01:03:01,912 It's really a miracle when you think that this one-- 826 01:03:01,912 --> 01:03:04,815 there's another one behind it, you know what I mean? 827 01:03:12,890 --> 01:03:15,259 He loved to have his picture taken naked. 828 01:03:17,694 --> 01:03:19,496 Interviewer: So it most certainly was not you 829 01:03:19,496 --> 01:03:21,398 that insisted on the nudity? 830 01:03:21,899 --> 01:03:27,071 No. I was a good Jewish girl. No, no, no. 831 01:03:27,838 --> 01:03:29,806 I would never, I don't think I-- 832 01:03:30,707 --> 01:03:32,709 No, because to this day, 833 01:03:32,709 --> 01:03:33,978 I'll always remember the first time 834 01:03:33,978 --> 01:03:36,947 Allen opened up the door naked. 835 01:03:37,681 --> 01:03:39,583 "What?" (laughs) 836 01:03:43,820 --> 01:03:45,355 He loved the camera anyhow. 837 01:03:47,824 --> 01:03:49,293 He was an omnivore. 838 01:04:02,772 --> 01:04:04,641 Interviewer: Does it bring Allen back, 839 01:04:04,641 --> 01:04:06,510 looking at these photographs? 840 01:04:06,944 --> 01:04:08,345 Oh, of course, it does. 841 01:04:12,316 --> 01:04:16,020 Maybe that's when photographs have their ultimate meaning, 842 01:04:16,020 --> 01:04:17,687 is when the person dies. 843 01:04:18,622 --> 01:04:22,893 Answering Machine: Monday, 4:33 p.m., line one. 844 01:04:24,028 --> 01:04:27,164 Ginsberg: Hi, Elsa, this is Allen Ginsberg. 845 01:04:28,665 --> 01:04:32,369 Um... I'm in Beth Israel Hospital. 846 01:04:33,337 --> 01:04:35,505 Some serious news. 847 01:04:36,773 --> 01:04:43,080 212-420-3301. 848 01:04:44,214 --> 01:04:49,987 And I'll be here until Wednesday to go home. 849 01:04:51,255 --> 01:04:55,125 Um... I have something more serious, 850 01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,029 so... as soon as you can reach me, best. 851 01:05:00,497 --> 01:05:03,533 Thank you and best regards to Harvey. 852 01:05:04,901 --> 01:05:06,036 And I have a call 853 01:05:06,036 --> 01:05:08,338 and I'm waiting to hear from Dr. Lau. 854 01:05:09,606 --> 01:05:11,641 Okey-doke. See you. 855 01:05:15,479 --> 01:05:19,549 Answering Machine: Friday, 3:05 p.m., line one. 856 01:05:19,984 --> 01:05:23,787 Man: Listen, Elsa, Allen came home from the hospital on Wednesday 857 01:05:24,221 --> 01:05:26,190 and was feeling good, hospice situation, 858 01:05:26,190 --> 01:05:27,591 you know, about the cancer. 859 01:05:27,591 --> 01:05:30,160 But he had a stroke last night, Thursday night, 860 01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,429 and he's in a final coma now. 861 01:05:32,429 --> 01:05:36,100 So just put your thoughts to Allen. 862 01:05:36,633 --> 01:05:39,036 He's in a picture of repose, 863 01:05:39,036 --> 01:05:41,138 surrounded by people who love him 864 01:05:41,138 --> 01:05:42,973 and good medical care. 865 01:05:42,973 --> 01:05:44,574 But we're not doing anything intrusive. 866 01:05:44,574 --> 01:05:47,711 We're letting him go. Okay? Thank you. 867 01:05:52,149 --> 01:05:53,150 Wow. 868 01:06:08,965 --> 01:06:12,269 Elsa: I owe Allen a big debt. 869 01:06:19,409 --> 01:06:22,346 It would be too corny to say the debt of life, 870 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,050 but the debt of a friend. 871 01:06:56,613 --> 01:06:57,447 If you're a kind of a 872 01:06:57,681 --> 01:07:00,217 "Oh, this will be the same forever" person... 873 01:07:02,619 --> 01:07:03,720 Or if you're a photographer 874 01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,790 and you're always nailing down what's the now... 875 01:07:11,661 --> 01:07:14,030 ...when you realize it doesn't matter 876 01:07:14,030 --> 01:07:16,032 how much you try to nail down the now, 877 01:07:16,032 --> 01:07:19,703 the now is racing beyond you. 878 01:07:27,144 --> 01:07:30,013 All of a sudden, you have these cameras that-- 879 01:07:30,447 --> 01:07:33,150 They're artifacts like ashtrays. 880 01:08:15,192 --> 01:08:16,626 Interviewer: When did you know that this film 881 01:08:16,626 --> 01:08:18,828 was just no longer going to be available? 882 01:08:19,563 --> 01:08:22,065 Because everybody was talking about it every day. 883 01:08:22,065 --> 01:08:25,034 It was sort of like-- As if it were a bakery, 884 01:08:25,034 --> 01:08:26,570 "How's the butter today?" 885 01:08:26,936 --> 01:08:30,540 "Oh, the cows are making it purple." 886 01:08:31,007 --> 01:08:32,909 Polaroid was very intimate, 887 01:08:33,310 --> 01:08:36,346 so everybody knew everything and everybody cared. 888 01:08:36,346 --> 01:08:39,649 So the word spread. 889 01:08:40,350 --> 01:08:43,753 The company went bankrupt and idiots bought it. 890 01:08:44,521 --> 01:08:46,790 The people who bought it were only interested 891 01:08:46,790 --> 01:08:48,158 in the brand name. 892 01:08:49,459 --> 01:08:51,195 They weren't going to save anything. 893 01:08:51,195 --> 01:08:54,798 They threw away the most wonderful things. 894 01:08:57,834 --> 01:09:00,737 They had no respect for great machinery. 895 01:09:11,515 --> 01:09:13,250 It's hard for me to feel angered 896 01:09:13,250 --> 01:09:15,785 when I had the camera all this time, 897 01:09:16,586 --> 01:09:19,823 and when I owe my life to the Polaroid. 898 01:09:20,957 --> 01:09:24,861 So many people who worked for Polaroid were so nice to me. 899 01:09:26,263 --> 01:09:28,932 But I'm certainly angry at the people who... 900 01:09:30,367 --> 01:09:32,569 ...made all the stupid decisions. 901 01:09:37,006 --> 01:09:39,209 So when Polaroid was gonna destroy 902 01:09:39,209 --> 01:09:40,944 all the remaining film, 903 01:09:41,678 --> 01:09:44,281 I realized something had to happen. 904 01:09:44,648 --> 01:09:48,652 And that was how Dan Stern was such a lifesaver 905 01:09:48,652 --> 01:09:51,988 in putting up the money for saving the leftover film. 906 01:09:52,256 --> 01:09:53,757 I don't want to give up the studio 907 01:09:53,757 --> 01:09:56,226 and I wanna be able to take pictures of myself 908 01:09:56,226 --> 01:09:58,828 and my friends and not worry if there are lines 909 01:09:58,828 --> 01:10:00,297 or money or anything. 910 01:10:00,297 --> 01:10:02,866 I just thought like, enough. 911 01:10:03,700 --> 01:10:05,302 So that was when I knew. 912 01:10:20,550 --> 01:10:21,785 Interviewer: What is going to happen 913 01:10:21,785 --> 01:10:22,819 to this archive? 914 01:10:23,420 --> 01:10:25,422 Elsa: I don't have a clue. 915 01:10:27,957 --> 01:10:29,593 I don't have a clue. 916 01:10:33,363 --> 01:10:34,498 Maybe the best will be sold 917 01:10:34,498 --> 01:10:37,033 and then another decade will go by 918 01:10:37,033 --> 01:10:38,735 and the pretty-goods will be sold, 919 01:10:39,068 --> 01:10:44,874 and then somebody will say, "Oh, there are the rejects." 920 01:10:44,874 --> 01:10:46,175 They'll be sold. 921 01:10:46,410 --> 01:10:49,045 If I were lucky, that would be what would happen. 922 01:10:49,045 --> 01:10:53,116 But... But I have no idea. 923 01:10:53,583 --> 01:10:56,185 You know, Boston is full of photographers 924 01:10:56,185 --> 01:10:57,554 who worry about that 925 01:10:58,054 --> 01:11:00,524 and nobody has any solution. 926 01:11:00,790 --> 01:11:02,091 Some people are very-- 927 01:11:02,091 --> 01:11:04,060 You know, have made arrangements 928 01:11:04,060 --> 01:11:06,129 with like Yale 929 01:11:06,530 --> 01:11:09,699 or, you know, somebody to take their work 930 01:11:09,699 --> 01:11:13,136 or take it with an endowment, or who the hell knows. 931 01:11:13,403 --> 01:11:15,271 I don't have the stamina for that, 932 01:11:15,271 --> 01:11:17,173 you know what I mean? I couldn't do that. 933 01:11:17,173 --> 01:11:18,542 So when people get together, 934 01:11:18,542 --> 01:11:19,643 they used to talk about 935 01:11:19,643 --> 01:11:21,210 where their kid would go to college 936 01:11:21,210 --> 01:11:23,313 and would their kid get into nursery school 937 01:11:23,313 --> 01:11:25,081 and what nursery school and... 938 01:11:25,315 --> 01:11:26,616 But now they talk about 939 01:11:26,616 --> 01:11:28,818 where their archive is going to go. 940 01:11:29,152 --> 01:11:30,787 It's awful. 941 01:11:31,955 --> 01:11:33,022 (laughs) 942 01:11:33,457 --> 01:11:36,393 (soft music playing) 943 01:12:04,688 --> 01:12:05,622 What amazes me 944 01:12:05,689 --> 01:12:07,424 is that you just have to wait long enough 945 01:12:07,424 --> 01:12:11,561 because my work was so rejected 946 01:12:11,995 --> 01:12:14,130 and so put down, 947 01:12:14,964 --> 01:12:18,201 it adds to the pleasure of people liking it now. 948 01:12:18,902 --> 01:12:21,471 For so long, I was at the bottom of the list. 949 01:12:21,471 --> 01:12:24,908 Even at Polaroid, I was at the bottom of the list. 950 01:12:25,942 --> 01:12:27,777 Really, way at the bottom. 951 01:12:30,914 --> 01:12:34,418 But somehow, I just kept plowing along. 952 01:12:35,885 --> 01:12:39,122 So maybe at some point, somebody'll say, 953 01:12:39,122 --> 01:12:41,825 "Oh, those white file drawers, 954 01:12:41,825 --> 01:12:44,428 they wouldn't be so bad to have here." 955 01:12:46,430 --> 01:12:47,631 But I don't know. 956 01:12:58,007 --> 01:13:03,112 And I was lucky in the way to find a camera and to like it. 957 01:13:06,082 --> 01:13:09,686 It's a real way of being a quote "artist" 958 01:13:09,686 --> 01:13:11,788 and having an off-beat life... 959 01:13:12,822 --> 01:13:17,427 ...inventing sort of a way of living that's comfortable. 960 01:13:18,795 --> 01:13:19,796 It worked. 961 01:13:21,064 --> 01:13:24,468 I feel very grateful that it-- That it worked.